In this episode of the R4R Podcast, Lili sits down with John and James from The Sunday Sippers. In this chat, the team cover everything from 100km efforts to how the Sunday Sippers started.

Lili:
Hey, welcome to the Running for Resilience podcast. My name is Lili, and this is my first time hosting.

I’ve been assured that I have full creative control over today’s episode, which — I don’t know — we’ll see how that goes.

I’m very excited to be here today. For the listeners who tune in regularly, you may recall that a few months ago I did my own podcast with Matt. When he asked me who I’d like to interview on this podcast, I was very quick to say Kim Kardashian.

So when I got the call-up to host, you can imagine my excitement. I started preparing questions on Skims, the Met Gala and Keeping Up with the Kardashians.

Anyway, it’s safe to say that all those questions are probably very irrelevant, because our guests today are none other than The Sunday Sippers boys, John and James.

Welcome to the podcast.

James:
Thank you very much.

John:
You can’t get any further than Kim Kardashian and us, I think.

Lili:
That’s better than Kim Kardashian, really. Hopefully.

John:
I hope so. I’m very honoured to be on the podcast. Thank you so much. Thanks for choosing us.

Lili:
For the listeners who don’t know who you are, would you like to introduce yourselves and explain a bit about what The Sunday Sippers is?

James:
My name’s James, firstly.

John:
I’m John. John Vlados.

James:
And yeah, we’re The Sunday Sippers, apparently.

John:
We are The Sunday Sippers.

James:
John’s not too happy that I didn’t wear any Sunday Sippers gear today.

John:
He’s full rep. Full ambassador role here, mate.

James:
I have the colours on.

John:
You’ve got the colours right, at least.

James:
But yeah, The Sunday Sippers — I guess we are a podcast slash community-led brand, is probably the best way to describe it.

John:
We’re laughing because we don’t really know what we are, honestly.

Lili:
What inspired you to start it, and how long ago was that?

James:
The backstory is that John and I have known each other for a while. We went to school together in different grades, but we probably didn’t like each other for a long time there.

Lili:
That’s how all good friendships start, though.

James:
Yeah. We were in two different friendship groups. My mates had younger brothers in his year, so we always knew of each other, but never really got along. Never really liked each other.

For some reason, we had a lot of the same interests. We followed a brand called YKTR, who created content, and we really liked the idea of creating content. We weren’t really sure how to do that, but something clicked between us.

I remember it was at a house party — a New Year’s Eve house party — and I pulled John aside. You know when you’re going around to your friends saying that you love them and good luck for next year? I said to John, “Look, I don’t know what you’re going to be doing, mate, but I know you’ve got something big in store for you. Really rip in and take it with both hands.”

From that point, we started talking more and diving into different stuff. Then we had this idea to create a podcast called The Sunday Sippers.

John:
I remember it was a Sunday afternoon, and James was actually driving back from Victoria. He’s got family there, and he sent me a long voice message saying, “Look, I don’t know what’s clicked with me right now, but it’s a Sunday morning, I’m having my coffee, and I’m driving back home. Why don’t we just start a podcast named Sunday Sippers? We can get together on a Sunday, sip our coffees and talk about whatever we want to talk about.”

That’s essentially how it was created.

At the time, we had no idea what we were going to talk about or what we were going to do, but we always wanted to document our journey. That journey has turned into fitness and endurance now, but at the time it was just kind of whatever and everything.

James:
Bacon and egg roll reviews.

John:
Yeah, we went through that.

It was a pretty funny beginning. I think the best thing about it was that we always had good intentions behind it. We just wanted to do it because it was fun, and it’s always been fun. It’s never been a chore.

That’s how it started, and now we’ve ended up here.

I was saying to James on the way here, we started Sunday Sippers when we were 23 and 21. Now James is 26, turning 27, and I’m 25. So I feel like there’s been a lot of growth in that time, and a lot of time as well.

Lili:
Absolutely. And now you’re both obviously quite into fitness, and that’s what The Sunday Sippers has evolved into. How do you think that transition came about — from the bacon and egg roll reviews to doing Ironman?

James:
I was looking back on our Instagram in preparation for this, and it’s actually pretty good to look back on the growth of us as individuals and the podcast.

For me, I started running because I had a shoulder reconstruction. That basically got me out of footy and into running.

One of the first things I did, just before we started Sunday Sippers, was the 4x4x48 challenge. That really clicked something in me. I thought, “There’s something more to this than just going about your training. There’s something in really trying to push yourself.”

John resonates with that a lot as well.

When we started Sunday Sippers, there was a lot of different stuff going on in those first few years, but there was always that pillar of having something. We did the 4x4x48 together as well, and we found a lot in setting these challenges and achieving them. I think that’s been a massive catalyst for who The Sunday Sippers are.

John:
When you did that first challenge, you raised money as well.

James:
Yeah, I think the first one was for Cancer Council.

John:
That was definitely our first introduction to doing something hard, but also doing something bigger than yourself.

When we did it together, we raised money for Lifeline. I guess we always just kind of band those two things together: doing something difficult because we think it’s a good thing to do for ourselves, but also using that as a platform to raise funds or awareness for a cause.

The foundation of Sunday Sippers has always been doing something difficult or pushing yourself for the betterment of yourself and others.

I think a big year for us was 2023. That would have been probably the second year of Sunday Sippers. At the start of that year, we signed up to a bunch of events. James had done his first marathon on his birthday, just randomly around the lake.

James:
Yeah, I just ran from my house down to the lake. Dad was following me on a bike, and my brothers were there for a little bit as well. It was quite funny.

John:
When James did that first 4x4x48 challenge, I think I joined in for maybe six of the runs and I found it quite difficult. Seeing James get up at 4am and 8am and all those crazy times, it clicked for me that this was something we really enjoyed doing.

We signed up to a lot of events at the start of 2023. James did a few triathlons. We did the Canberra Marathon. Then, stupidly enough, I think a week after the Canberra Marathon, James and I created our own Three Peaks Marathon, where we ran up Mount Majura, Mount Ainslie and Black Mountain across the night.

James:
Even tougher.

John:
It was Anzac Day Eve. The idea was that we wanted to roll into the dawn service, which we did. It was probably the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I was so underprepared and my body wasn’t really up for it.

But that was the momentum we were building.

Then we went on a Europe trip together that year for about four months. I think we both had a good feeling that we’d started the year really well, we were building something with Sunday Sippers, and we wanted to come back from Europe and build on that momentum.

We got back from Europe, and then we both did Ironman for the first time, and then the 100K, and so on. I feel like it’s always been a massive ball of momentum.

James:
There’s always been something more. We’d complete something and then go, “What’s next?” It’s great that we both have that mindset. That’s probably the pillar behind how we’ve built it into doing a few Ironmans and things like that.

Lili:
I was just saying before, if you run around the lake on a weekend, there are a lot of Sunday Sippers hats and shirts getting around. The community has obviously grown heaps. Do you think it’s because of that momentum — that people want to get involved and push themselves and realise they’re stronger than they think?

James:
I was down there this morning and I saw six or seven hats.

Lili:
They would have been very excited to see the founding father there.

James:
It was good. I was in the hurt locker, so they probably weren’t that excited to see me.

Those early challenges were huge. We did the fundraisers and everyone jumped on the back of us — our family and friends, people we knew, and people we sort of didn’t know. They got behind us.

I think it probably comes down to the fact that we’re pretty open and honest. If you go through all the podcasts, we’re very true to ourselves. People resonate with that.

We’re two very average footy players — one average, one above average — who started with a 5K and slowly chipped away. That’s something I really hang my hat on. I haven’t just gone straight to the hardest thing. It’s always been slowly chipping away. I think people get a lot from seeing that slow build.

John:
It’s similar to R4R, and probably why we have such a strong connection with R4R. The foundation is that good people attract good people.

As James said, all our friends and family have got behind us. We both feel very lucky to have the friends and family we do. Even though a lot of our closest friends might think some of the things we’re doing are a little bit silly and they don’t really understand it, they still get behind us and support us. That’s a really special thing.

The broader Canberra community has seen what we’re doing. We’re never trying to do anything that’s not ourselves. We’re just doing things we enjoy and believe in.

We’re thankful that people around Canberra have really got behind it. It’s been such an awesome thing because we’ve made so many more friendships and connections with people that we probably wouldn’t have if we didn’t start this.

We’re actually only doing our first ever social run tomorrow, which we probably should have done in the past, but the events we’ve done together or with Sippers have been such a good opportunity to connect with new people.

I think people who believe in community and getting behind people who are doing good things are attracted to that. It’s a similar vibe to R4R.

Lili:
That’s it. The running community in Canberra is full of so many groups that are quite like-minded. It’s about community. That’s obviously what Running for Resilience is all about — coming together, getting a bit of exercise in, but mainly about the connection you can make with people, either during or afterwards.

It’s amazing to see how the communities can help each other and build. There’s really something for everyone.

John:
There are never too many communities or groups doing good things. A rising tide raises all ships.

It’s good seeing other people doing things. R4R has grown exponentially. When we first started going, there might have been 50 people on a Wednesday night. Now it’s crazy how that group has grown.

The R4R mission of making the ACT suicide free by 2033 is built on banding together and making sure the message is known. There are more people and groups that you can rely on and connect with.

What James and I love most about Sippers is that we’re part of that. We’ve created our own community that people can be part of. There are so many little subgroups and connections that have formed because of it. It’s the same with R4R — so many little communities and running groups coming together for the same purpose: to get out there, be active, support positive mental health and feel connected to people.

Lili:
Moving your body is something that only recently clicked for me, which sounds silly because I’ve run pretty much my whole life. I did it for physical health. You think running is good to keep you fit and healthy, but it’s so good for your mind.

It doesn’t have to be running — any kind of movement can really clear the mind if you’re going through a tough patch. That’s what Running for Resilience is trying to do. They’re branching out to yoga and boot camps and racket sports, paddleboarding — everything. It doesn’t have to be running. Moving your body is good for your mind as well as your physical health.

James:
Definitely. Since we started training more in the triathlon space, as soon as I finish an event and have a couple of weeks off, when I’m not training as much, you get a bit itchy.

John:
Yeah, you do.

James:
You get a bit down. It’s confusing because you’ve completed something, but not being active all the time definitely weighs down on you.

That’s why I love the toughness of Ironman training. There’s always something to do. Every afternoon you can get out and go for a swim, a ride or a run. It takes your mind off other things and gets you thinking about each session.

John:
In your 20s, you create so many good memories with your friends doing all sorts of things, but some of the best memories I have are from when James and I were doing our first Ironman prep.

Every Sunday morning we would do our long ride. Usually in an Ironman prep you do the ride on Saturday and the run on Sunday, but James would always work on Saturdays as a sparky. So we swapped the days around and did the long ride on Sunday.

There was usually a group of three to six of us, depending on who was coming. James has to wake up at 5am every day during the week because he’s working as a tradie, but then he has to get up and train as well.

Those Sunday morning long rides with our mates were really hard, but they are probably the best memories I have of training. You’d connect with people for five hours at some points.

Exercise is good for your mind and body, but the social aspect — which R4R is massive on — is such a key component of movement and exercise.

Lili:
Absolutely. I thought I had an injury a few weeks ago, so I didn’t run for a few mornings. Running with friends is the absolute best way to start the day for me. If I sleep in, I always don’t feel as good as if I’d got up and seen some mates.

That week — and I’m being dramatic because it was three days — really showed me how much better my mood is and how much better my day is set up if I’ve got out with some friends, had a chat and had a laugh before carrying on with the day.

John:
I was thinking about R4R in that sense as well. I used to think about footy training. Benny has talked about this too — never wanting to go to footy training, especially in a Canberra winter. But you’d always come home feeling really good because you had that social aspect and you’d worked hard with like-minded people.

R4R is the same. You might not always want to go, but you come back from it and it’s the highlight of your week.

Lili:
That’s it. Sometimes you finish work and, if you don’t work near Kingston, you think, “I could just run at home, it would be so much quicker.” But you always leave in a much better mood than when you started.

John:
How do you do it? You run nearly every morning, right? Are you pretty good at not sleeping in? I’ve been in such a rut of waking up so tired and just sleeping in, then regretting it all day.

Lili:
We were laughing with some friends the other day because you set the alarm, it goes off, then you send the message saying, “Sorry, not coming,” and then you just lie in bed not sleeping for an hour, regretting that you didn’t get to sleep in and you also didn’t get out.

I’m a lot better when I’m going to meet someone because there’s that accountability. Having said that, people do receive messages from me at 5:45 saying, “Guys, not coming.” But I try. I just remember how I feel when I do get up, and the fact that I’m probably not going to go back to sleep anyway, so I may as well.

John:
That’s a good point. It’s just hard in Canberra winters. It’s been particularly cold this year. Tomorrow it’s meant to be minus five or something, so that’s good for the social run.

Lili:
You mentioned that you both do these really long endurance events. For listeners who don’t know, John ran 100Ks around the lake last year and raised money for Running for Resilience.

First of all, thank you. That was incredible. I love running, but the thought of 100K — I don’t know about that.

What inspired you to do 100K and link up with Running for Resilience?

John:
The bloke next to me inspired me to run 100K.

James:
Yeah.

John:
Because he did it the year beforehand, in December 2023.

Lili:
Side note, you picked a bad time of year to do it because it was really hot.

James:
Yeah, it was a tough day. I think it was the 23rd of December.

Lili:
I did a little bit of looking at your Instagram yesterday and thought, good on you, but 23rd of December, heavy cotton T-shirts…

James:
We really had no idea.

John:
That’s what I love about Sippers. It’s very cowboy. We never have the best plan, but we just make it work.

James:
As we were saying before, 2023 was a big year for us. The first half of the year was really busy. We had that Europe trip planned as well. I had a self-proclaimed world tour, where I basically travelled nearly everywhere.

I did a 70K run before I left.

John:
What was the point of that?

James:
To sleep on the plane.

Running for me slowly built up. I did my first marathon, then I did a 50K, and then I knew I was going to Europe. I thought, “I’m probably not ready for 100 yet, so I’ll just go do a 70 and see how we go.”

I ticked it off. When I came back, we got in touch with our coach to start the Ironman prep, but I wanted to tick off the 100K before I started doing Ironman training.

I think it was eight weeks after coming back from Europe. It was a little bit sloppy, but I was ready for it.

I wanted to raise money for the Mark Hughes Foundation. I lost my uncle to brain cancer, so that was close to my heart. Like we said, with all the other challenges we’d done, the Sippers community really got behind us. They did so tenfold with this announcement as well.

It was about pushing myself, but it was also about showing people in my family, my friends and our close community that if you set out to do something, you can achieve it.

Running 100Ks would have felt so far-fetched a few years ago, but it was just slowly chipping away. Once you set a task and say you’re going to do something, following that through takes you on to the next challenge as well.

I’m glad it ticked something in Johnny’s brain to take it on.

Lili:
You’ve almost ticked something in my brain.

Do you think announcing it publicly gives you that level of accountability? Not that it would matter if you didn’t complete the 100K, but once you say publicly that you’re going to do it, do you think that makes you do the work to make sure you can?

James:
Yeah. I think that’s the biggest step.

I remember in Ned Brockmann’s book he talked about announcing he was going to do the 50 marathons. That was one of the biggest steps, because as soon as you announce it, it’s a lot on your character. You’re going to go out there and try to achieve it, no holds barred. You’re going to do everything in your power to get it done, especially when you’re fundraising and people are backing you.

John:
I think Ned is like this, and we’ve probably adopted it from him a little bit. Once you say you’re going to do it, you’re just going to do it regardless. There’s no way out.

I definitely felt that when I committed to doing the 100K with R4R. There was a massive focus for me not just to raise funds, but to spread awareness about what R4R is.

Once you put it out there, in my mind there was no way it wasn’t getting done.

James did his 100K in December. We did Ironman halfway through the year in May, which was really awesome. I had a bit of time off, and the 100K was always in the back of my mind.

I wasn’t sure how it would work with raising money for R4R. I think I’d inquired about it around the same time someone else was doing something similar, but at the time R4R wasn’t a charity, so they couldn’t take funds.

Then at the start of 2024, R4R became a formal charity and it worked out really well. I reached out to Breeny, Benny and Shooter and said, “This is what I want to do in November. I’d love to raise funds and make it a big R4R event.”

The community had grown so much, and James and I had been part of it for a few years. We decided on 100K because it was the same thing James had done.

My running journey has been very similar to James’s. I stopped playing footy and wanted something to keep myself fit.

The first time I ever ran a 5K — and I’m real OCD with my Strava, I don’t want to finish on .9 or anything like that — I think it was pretty much my first ever proper run. Anything before that was just footy conditioning on an oval.

My first kilometre was like 3:55 or something for a 5K.

Lili:
Pretty impressive.

John:
I’ll tell you what, I was hot. Then after that it was like 5:30, 6:00, 6:30.

James:
That’s a long way home.

John:
It was the classic lake bridge-to-bridge run, and my ankles were swollen afterwards because I had these massive Asics that were probably not even built for running.

It was a different build back then. I’d come from playing footy. I found it really difficult, but there was a part of me that loved the challenge of it.

So I kept at it. I did three 5Ks a week, slowly building. Then I did a half marathon, then a marathon, then locked into the 100K. I had a good 16-week build for that after Ironman.

Lili:
So you did it properly.

John:
Yeah. Luckily, by that point we had our coach Gav. Shout out Gav — one of the greats.

I’m not a naturally gifted runner, so I wanted to make sure I gave it enough respect. James and I are quite different. James is very cowboy and just gets things done no matter what. I’m a bit more precious, you could say. I feel like I need to have the perfect plan to do everything.

The whole eight weeks prior, after we announced it, was really good. Working with R4R, promoting it on our channels and creating the content and production around it was awesome.

Lili:
You had a massive community come out on the day. I know you did for your run as well the year before. It’s amazing that people wanted to support you.

Did having people around you help you keep going? Because I’ve never done 100K, but I imagine it would get tough at several points.

John:
It was incredibly special. Most of the community is our really good friends, alongside the people who have joined in and the connections we’ve made.

If I was doing that by myself, I don’t even know if I would finish it, honestly. I’ve spoken to Matthew Breen about it — it really felt like I was being lifted by everyone that day.

I wasn’t giving anyone much. I wasn’t really talking.

Lili:
That’s all right. You’re allowed to not give people much when you’re doing 100K.

John:
Yeah, blinkers. But I definitely felt it. There was something a bit more spiritual about it, or just the energy. I definitely felt lifted by everyone.

James:
It was probably one of the most special things I’ve been part of, even just witnessing it. I was riding around on the bike most of the day, but the last 10K, when lots of people from R4R came down and joined in, was amazing.

Johnny was trotting in at the front, and there was this massive line of people going back 50 to 100 metres. It was a very special day.

Those are the moments where you take it in and go, “How cool is this community, that this many people will come out and support one individual trying to make a difference?”

We both feel very lucky that we started Sippers and can do things like that. We didn’t set out to do it because of those moments, but the fact that we’ve had them — James’s 100K, my 100K and everything in between — those are things you’ll hold with you for the rest of your life.

Running 100Ks, or completing any kind of endurance event, is something to be really proud of. You have to dig deep, not only in the training but on the day.

Lili:
Now that you’ve done quite a few of those big events, do you think in other areas of your life you can look back and say, “I can get through this because I’ve run for 10 and a half hours”?

John:
It’s funny because when we say we’ve done an Ironman, it probably sounds better if it took longer. Like if you say it took 16 hours, people think, “That’s amazing — 16 hours of moving.”

But yes, for sure. It’s slowly chipping away and becoming more resilient.

I still look back and laugh. My goal in running years ago was to run a 20-minute 5K. There were five or six attempts in a row where I would stop at 3K and have to walk home.

To look back on that now, it’s all about slowly chipping away and building resilience.

There are so many parts of my life where that transfers. Work-wise, I’ve just started an electrical business, and you need to be resilient. You need to not crumble or let things get to you.

R4R, and training for endurance events, is about showing up. For R4R, it’s once a week. For endurance training, it’s just getting to the pool. Once you’re at the pool, you’ll get in and do the session.

That transfers into life. You just have to be willing to show up, and then you’ll either get things done or work out a way.

Lili:
Running and endurance have become a lot more popular over the last few years. I’ve been a running nerd forever, and I remember when I was a teenager having to sneak into Rebel Sport because that’s where I got my shoes, and I didn’t want anyone to see me going in there because it wasn’t cool.

Now it’s so fun that it is popular and people can see how beneficial it is.

I think maybe COVID kickstarted a lot of people, but there’s also a growing value placed on health and making sure we are resilient and can take on life’s challenges.

John:
It sounds a bit cheesy or cliché, but running — a marathon, for example — is such a good metaphor for life.

You start off feeling amazing. You feel really fit because you’ve done the prep. Then halfway through, you have a few little doubts because you’re feeling worse than you thought you would. Then you hit the wall at 30K and you’re really struggling. Then you’re only 3K out and you can see the end.

It’s such a rollercoaster, no matter how fit you are. Whether it’s your first marathon or your 10th, you’re always experiencing that rollercoaster.

It’s such a representation of life. So much is out of our control, so you can only control your response and how you feel.

That’s truly why I like doing endurance. Having a good time is great and improving is great, but it’s more about the rollercoaster it takes you on and how that helps you take on life’s challenges.

It’s very important to do hard things in life.

James:
If we always took the easy route, it probably wouldn’t be as sweet. Doing a hard prep for a marathon or Ironman is difficult at the time, but when you cross the finish line, it’s very rewarding.

John:
I’m laughing because pretty much every time James and I have had an event — the 4x4x48s, the marathons, the 100Ks — the week before always seems to be the most chaotic week of our lives.

James is moving house. I have final uni exams. There are so many different things going on, and we always laugh and say, “Why are we doing this?”

James:
It’s almost like getting to the start of the race is the relaxing part. All the chaos is done.

There have been a lot of voice messages between us saying, “I just can’t wait until I’m 60K deep and in that much pain.”

Lili:
That sentence in itself is quite unique.

James:
It’s a bit sick, isn’t it?

Lili:
It’s like we do all these endurance events, and at the end of the day, we’re not professional athletes. We’re doing it for ourselves and for what it teaches us and how it helps us move forward in life.

How many marathons have you done?

Lili:
I think Sydney Marathon will be my eighth.

James:
Have they always been events?

Lili:
No. I did a couple during COVID because there was nothing else to do.

The marathon is a tough one. I’ve had some stinkers where you think, “Why am I doing this?” But you keep coming back.

James:
It’s very addictive.

Lili:
It is. It’s a weird, addictive thing to keep doing.

James:
It’s the greatest distance, the marathon. It’s so hard, no matter what level you’re on. If it’s your first marathon, it’s probably the hardest thing you’ve ever done. Even as you progress and get quicker, it’s still that distance where you’re sitting right on a hard level for three or four hours.

Are you guys doing Sydney?

John:
I’m not.

James:
No. There’s a potential ticket I could get. If I could get my hands on one, I would do it, because that’s what I did last year. But we don’t have tickets.

Lili:
Even though I was told I had to time this, and I was given one very clear job, I haven’t done it. I’m not sure how long we’ve been going, but I think we might be ready to wrap it up.

I just want to finish by asking: obviously, I put it out into the world that I would like to interview Kim Kardashian. It hasn’t happened yet. Who would you like to see on this podcast?

James:
Great question.

John:
With Sydney in two weeks, probably Kipchoge.

James:
That would be huge. Get him on the mic.

John:
We’ll see what we can do.

James:
It’d be cool to get Rocky on.

John:
Yeah, I was going to say that. Or Ned Brockmann. That would be really cool.

James:
We’ve been lucky enough to have him on ours twice.

Lili:
Well, we might have to go through you.

John:
Yeah. Brocky would be a good one for R4R. He’s been such a massive inspiration to both of us, so that would be cool.

Lili:
It would be very cool.

John:
But thank you very much for having us on. We’re both very honoured to be on the R4R podcast. It’s a much more professional setup than what we have.

We’ve done about 160 episodes, I think, and this is the most serious we’ve ever had. We’re very grateful for the opportunity.

Lili:
Massive thanks, and thanks for making the time this weekend. We might see you at the start line at Sydney.

James:
Thank you.

John:
Thank you.