R4R Podcast: Jess Peil with Mark Trbojevic

Recorded at Lonsdale Street Studio.

At Lonsdale Street Studio, we believe in the power of storytelling to connect people and create change. That’s why we’re proud to be the production partner for the Running for Resilience podcast.

Transcript

Jess Peil: Here we are, another R4R podcast. And you know what? I feel really bad. I don’t actually know what number podcast we’re at, but that’s all part of the fun of it all.

Today we are here with my friend Mark Trbojevic, who is from Peak Health Canberra, who is an amazing, amazing, amazing chiropractor and, as some of my friends would call him — and you’re going to hate me saying this, aren’t you? — we call him the Chiro God. He doesn’t let that go to his head though. Not at all.

Obviously, Mark’s got some amazing tips and tricks to stay healthy for running and also mental health as well. So welcome, Mark.

Mark Trbojevic: Thanks for having me. It’s good to be here.

Jess: Thank you for being here. So Mark, I know obviously we want to know a little bit more about you and what you do and where you come from. I know that you were a sprinter growing up. So tell us a bit about that. What was your favourite distance? We need PBs because we’re runners, let’s be real.

Mark: So yeah, I was a sprinter growing up. I did Little A’s up on the Northern Beaches. I started under eights, and then I went away and did a few other sports and came back in under 12s. From there, I was running for the next 10 or 15 years or so.

I did 100s, 200s and 400s. I also, during Little A’s, did long jump and that sort of stuff. But my main focus was the 400 metres. I did 200s and 100s as well, just to balance it out with the 400s. In terms of the 400, I was competing at a state and national level. For the 200 and 100, I was more a state-level runner.

In terms of PBs, it’s always the fun stuff.

Jess: We like stats.

Mark: Yeah. So I was under 11 seconds for 100 metres. I couldn’t get under the 10 like Usain Bolt. He’s a machine. In terms of 400s, I was in the high 47s.

Jess: Ooh. I watched a friend’s son race 400 just a couple of weeks ago. It’s insane. You guys are full gas for 47 seconds. He clocked in at about 47 seconds for that one as well. I was impressed.

Mark: Yeah. The last 100, you’re just holding on for dear life, hoping for the best. The amount of times at training I’d be in the gutter vomiting after training, just trying to get through it all.

Jess: Bloody hell. That’s crazy. I sit there because the amount of times that I’ve said about sprinters, “Oh yeah, run 400 metres and you’re exhausted at the end of it. That’s cute.” But you can see it. Obviously being a distance person myself, we go for a lot longer, a lot slower, and it’s a very, very different feeling.

Mark: Yeah, absolutely. Completely different energy system. With long-distance running, it’s mainly aerobic, whereas it’s lactic threshold when you’re doing that sprinting, particularly over 10 seconds.

For 10 seconds, you can get through it easily. But as soon as you get that lactic threshold, that’s when it hurts.

Jess: Oh my goodness, that’s crazy. Did you find when you were running, and when you were at the more national level, that there was a lot of assistance with mental health as well? Or was that sort of not really around?

Mark: No, not really. That wasn’t really around when I was coming through. It was more that you would learn about how to be on point on the day — strategies to perform — but not in terms of the mental health side of things. No.

Jess: Wow. A lot of, basically, “When you finish, that’s it. See you later,” kind of thing.

Mark: Yeah. A lot of sports have had that. But there’s so much more focus on that now and realising that you really have to look after people at the end of a career. Half the time, people don’t know what they’re doing now, where they’re going and stuff too.

For those elite athletes playing footy, or those sorts of sports, that’s their every day. They’re doing that every day for 10 or 15 years, and then they step away from it. What now? There’s no one telling me what to do every day. There’s no nutritionist, dieticians, strength and conditioners. It’s like, what’s next? I’m in charge now. And that’s when they start to unravel.

Jess: Yeah, that makes so much sense. It’s so good now to see that there are so many more facilities and avenues out there for people to feel good, maintain themselves and move forward, as opposed to what they were back in the — what, five years ago?

I wish. I can say that because I’m older than you.

So, what took you into chiropractic, as opposed to physio or osteopathy? Did I say that right?

Mark: You did, yeah.

Jess: Oh, yay.

Mark: It goes back to my sprinting days. I had a few issues with hamstring injuries. I was doing surf lifesaving as well, so beach sprinting and athletics. Most of my hamstring injuries happened on the beach when I was sprinting on the beach compared to track.

Jess: Damn sand.

Mark: Yeah. And there’s a reason for that, but I can go into that later if you’re interested.

In terms of injuries to the hamstring, we as a family would see chiros instead of physios growing up. Obviously, the chiro got me going again, got me back sprinting on the track and on the beach.

Unless you’re in the top few in the world in athletics, you’re not going to make a living out of it. So I was thinking, what else can I do? I enjoy health. I enjoy fitness. How can I make a difference?

I saw chiros, as I already said, so coming towards the end of school, I said, “What can I do at uni?” I looked at the course and thought, “I’ll do chiro, see how I go.” Then it just steamrolled from there. I got into uni and loved it.

Initially, I went over to Scotland and worked as a chiro there. I was there for around 18 months. Then I came to Canberra straight after, worked as an associate, then started out my own thing out of a gym. We’ve been open in Farrer for about two and a half years now.

Jess: Yeah, that’s cool. Why Canberra?

Mark: That’s because my wife — when I was living in Scotland, she already had her work set up in Canberra. I didn’t have any work or anything lined up, so I said, “I’ll come down to Canberra and go from there.” I’ve been here for coming up to 10 years now.

Jess: Oh my goodness. It’s almost like — what is it called when you’ve been working somewhere for 10 years and you get your long service leave?

Mark: Yeah. Canberra long service leave. That’d be good.

Jess: Exactly. I think the practice would almost fall apart without you there. I know Caitlin is amazing as well.

Mark: She’ll keep it going.

Jess: She’s incredible.

There are obviously so many people who do have a fear, I would say, of chiropractors. They think they’re going to go in there and they’re going to get their neck cracked, and they’re going to get that cracked and stuff. Can you dispel that a little bit?

Mark: Yep. In terms of what we do, for our initial consultation, we do an hour-long consult. The focus is really on assessment. Obviously, history is key, and then we get into examination.

We do a mixture of neural assessment, so looking at the parts of the brain that relate to movement. We look at full-body functional movement as well, so not just the area of concern, but how the whole body interrelates and what could be contributing to the pain that someone’s coming in with.

We also do strength testing. If there’s a runner, for example, we’ll be testing all the lower limbs — quad strength, hamstring strength, calf strength, foot intrinsic muscles.

From there, we explain what we’ve picked up and what needs working on. Then we’ll do a mixture of different things, from mobilisation and manipulation to soft tissue work and rehab exercises.

People think chiros are just going to adjust the neck. With a lot of people, I don’t even touch the neck in terms of adjustments. It just depends what’s going on with the individual. It’s very specific to each person, and what I do on one person, I’ll do something completely different to the next person.

Jess: I still remember having that first appointment when I came in and saw you. I think that first assessment is about an hour to an hour and a half.

Mark: Yeah.

Jess: And I was there for — I think I was there for longer.

Mark: I think you were.

Jess: I think I needed a lot of help because I was pretty broken. It blew me away.

Before I came in, I’d said to my husband, Rich, and he was like, “Why are you going to a chiropractor for your foot? That’s ridiculous.” And I said, “Look, it’s 10 months that this thing’s been going on for. I need to go and just throw everything at it.” I thought, why the hell not?

I went in, and I think when I left, I called him on the way home. The drive home’s only 10 or 15 minutes. I’m like, “Get on the phone, get in, see this guy.” It’ll blow you away. And he hasn’t looked back since either. He comes in to see you too when he’s in the country.

Do you find that most people come to see you initially because they have a pre-existing injury, or do you find there are some people who come in just because they want a check-up, so to speak?

Mark: For me, it’s a real mixture. Some people will have a pre-existing injury that they want to try and address. Some people just want to come in to improve their performance because I work with a lot of people in terms of the sporting side of things.

I see a lot of weightlifters as well, and some of them just want to be able to lift and move better. It’s not, “I’m coming in for this to reduce injury.” It’s, “I just want to perform better.”

That’s when we’re assessing to see how the body’s moving, checking neurological stuff, checking strength and seeing how we can make them move and function better so they can perform better on the day.

Jess: That’s good. It’s such a good mixture.

Mark: It is a nice mixture. Pain’s a whole topic, which we might get into today, but I love improving performance and making people function and move better as well.

Jess: Can you make me faster?

Mark: I’m not sure about that. You run long distance.

Jess: Damn. I can’t do that 400-metre thing. That’s not even a warm-up.

So, running-specific — with R4R being focused on running, and the majority of our people obviously running and supplementing with other sports — what do you find is one of the most common injuries that a runner will present with?

Mark: The most common ones I see for runners are probably Achilles tendinopathies or plantar fasciitis. Then you’ve got stress responses at the bone, particularly the lunatics who are running the 100 miles and the multi-day events.

Jess: Who are you talking about?

Mark: There are a few of those around.

Jess: I don’t know those people. Maybe I need to meet those people.

Mark: But that would be the most common I see for runners. Then it’s working out where the mechanical breakdown is and what’s overloading that structure, and then giving the appropriate treatment from there.

Jess: Very cool. Because every time I come in, I’ve got something different.

Mark: Even going back to you, obviously you presented with plantar fascia pain initially. I think it was on the left side?

Jess: Yeah.

Mark: And we picked up a lot of deficiencies in strength on the right-hand side. If you’ve got deficiency on the right-hand side, you’re going to be loading up that left side more. As soon as we got you stronger on that right-hand side, things improved and got better.

Jess: Oh, so much.

Mark: A lot of people will be like, “The pain’s there, let’s focus on that.” But if you’re not fixing the cause of what’s happening, you’re only going to get so far.

Jess: Yeah. I don’t think you even looked at my foot that first appointment. My foot was like, “I’m here. Hello. I’m the thing that hurts.” And you were like, “Not you. Back off. You’re later.”

Obviously, everyone realises the body is connected — the hip bone’s connected to the leg bone. That really took me a minute then. But there hasn’t been as much focus on the body-to-mind connection. I know you do a lot of that work now too. Go into that a little bit, because it’s interesting.

Mark: It’s interesting. I guess my knowledge in this area has come a lot from a guy in Melbourne named Brett Jarosz. He’s a chiro, but he’s done a lot of functional neurology stuff, and he’s big in the concussion field and space down in Melbourne.

What we’re assessing is basically how the brain is functioning. There are a variety of tests that we can do to give us an idea of whether there’s a deficiency in different parts of the brain.

A lot of the testing I do is cerebellar testing, which relates to movement. Joint proprioception is, for example, if your arm’s up here, it’s giving feedback back to your brain to say, “That’s where my joint is.” But when there’s a mix-up, sometimes the brain thinks it’s over here when it’s actually there.

So that’s cerebellar testing. We’re doing quick movements, eyes closed, eyes open, that sort of stuff.

Then there’s another part of the brain called your frontal lobe. A lot of people know that in men it probably develops later, around 25 years of age.

Jess: Twenty-five, maybe 50 for some.

Mark: What that part of the brain does is decision-making. It relates to memory as well, and sequencing of movement — what muscles are contracting to be there.

There are simple tests you can do, like making a sequence: fist, edge, flat, and doing it as quick as you can.

Jess: That was so hard. I remember doing that one once.

Mark: So that gives insight into whether that frontal lobe is working. You do it left versus right.

From there, we get into eye movements. There’s a thing called VOMS, which is different reflexive eye movements that everyone has, and we’re looking at how well they’re functioning. That gives us, again, an insight potentially into the frontal lobe.

We’ll do quick movements. For example, someone’s looking at that thumb and then the next one as quick as they can. If there’s slowness in that movement, it could relate to that frontal lobe being down. If the accuracy is off, it could be relating back to the cerebellum.

Then there are more specific parts of the brain that we’re looking at, which I won’t get into because that’s a bit complex for this.

Jess: Complex for me.

Mark: But that’s giving us an insight into how well their brain is functioning at the moment. How well is that mind-body connection going?

If, for example, you have a lot of injuries and it continually is on the left-hand side of the body — say your left shoulder, your left Achilles, your left knee — potentially they have a deficiency in that cerebellar function on that left-hand side. Even though those are the structures getting impacted, it’s not them that’s so much the issue. If we fix up what’s happening at the brain, then a lot of those functions clear up.

Jess: That is really cool. It has fascinated me because when we did the big run last year, the Trip 7, you and I were trying to high-five and I couldn’t connect. I still remember coming up and being like, “What?” Like trying to swat flies, basically. We just couldn’t connect at all. It was really bizarre.

You said exactly that — that I had cooked myself, I was in fight or flight that entire week, and I was a mess from that. Then it was just those few simple little things. I think you got me to do the months of the year backwards from September backwards. You did all this stuff to make my brain work better, gave it some meat basically, and then I could do the exercise. It blew me away how quickly the brain resets so that the body can function.

Mark: Yeah. And that’s the thing with any neural stuff. You know if you made it better straight away or you know if you made it worse. Sometimes you’re like, “Oh, that didn’t work. We need to do something else.”

For it to be that quick of a change is awesome, but you need to reinforce it. There’s no point doing it once and then saying, “Yeah, it’s good.” You need to actually work it.

The research is showing up to 20 minutes a day at a time working it. If you can do that twice a day, even better. What this is called is neuroplasticity, and that’s how the nervous system adapts. It can adapt in a good way, or it can adapt in a poor way.

In terms of reinforcing that, the research is a bit unknown in terms of how long you have to work on it. It could be days, could be weeks, could be months. Everyone’s different, and that’s why it’s important we come back and retest. How’s it looking now?

Sometimes the testing will completely change. You’re working on the left side, now we need to work on the right side, because things adapt and things change.

Jess: Oh yeah. So it strengthens up on one side and then the other side says, “No, it’s my holiday time,” so to speak. Then you have to balance it back out.

Mark: Yeah, basically.

You touched on that sympathetic state. That’s that fight or flight state.

Jess: Which pretty much everyone’s in these days. That is the world now.

Mark: Yeah. We’re all working too much, with schedules, kids, everything. We’re all stressed out of our heads.

Then the other part of the nervous system is the parasympathetic, which is that rest and digest. Because people are stressed out, they’re in that fight or flight state. What happens is your cortisol levels increase and skyrocket. That’s okay for a short period. That’s normal. For prolonged periods, that’s when issues get created.

That’s when sensitivities in the body start to come on. That’s when sicknesses can come on.

Jess: My stomach is sore all the time.

Mark: Yeah. How many people go on holidays and they get sick straight away?

Jess: Get sick straight away.

Mark: Because what happens when you go on that holiday? You de-stress, cortisol levels drop, you get sick. The body says, “Yeah, exactly.”

Some of what I need to do with a lot of people — when they’re in that sympathetic state, it’s common that people will have anxiety and that sort of stuff going on as well. With this neural stuff that we do, we can target that parasympathetic nervous system to unwind some of that anxiety and de-stress that fight or flight state.

Simple things: breathing’s a big one. I’m sure a lot of people have heard about the vagal nerve, because it seems to be the buzzword at the moment.

Jess: Is that the one where you’re doing the breathing and the nostril closing stuff?

Mark: No. So the vagal nerve goes down to the diaphragm.

Jess: Oh, okay.

Mark: If you’re doing diaphragmatic breathing, which is to stimulate the diaphragm, you actually need to breathe in through the nose. If you’re breathing through the mouth, you’re not going to stimulate the diaphragm as much.

A simple way to stimulate the vagal nerve is through diaphragm breathing. I like to use an app called Breathe. What it is, it has a little circle on it, and the circle expands out and contracts in. You’re doing diaphragmatic breathing to a timer. You’re looking at that, breathing in slowly, breathing out through the mouth slowly. That’s a nice way you can stimulate the parasympathetics.

Jess: You don’t have to do it for long either, do you? You could just take a three or four-minute break, have a cup of tea and a breathing session, and then back to it.

Mark: Yeah, exactly. Some other nice, real simple ways — you can do gargling, humming.

Jess: You’ve got a good voice to hum, don’t you?

Mark: Right now, no. But because of the vibrations that are created from that, it again stimulates that vagal nerve.

Jess: Get out. And that’s why there’s so much stuff about mouth taping at the moment. Would that be it?

Mark: Yeah. Well, that’s obviously encouraging nasal breathing, which should be encouraging that diaphragmatic breathing. So that’s why that’s become a big thing as well. Obviously you’ve got to be careful with that, because if you’re not breathing through the nose — whoops, not so good. Make sure you get advice on that one.

The other thing, going back to the eye movements earlier. Say, for example, we’re assessing eye movements up and down, and then we’ve got eye movements side to side. When your movements are going up and down, you’re stimulating the fight or flight state of the nervous system. Any ones that are across, you’re stimulating that rest and digest, parasympathetic part of your nervous system.

Someone that’s in that anxiety state, for example, we’re not going to be stimulating that up and down. We want to go side to side.

Think about someone who’s at an office all day, sitting at a computer. What are they doing? Scrolling up and down on our phones.

Jess: Up and down. Well, unless people are on a dating app, they’re scrolling left or right.

Mark: There could be a few of those as well.

Jess: Yeah, they should be scrolling up. Get out of it.

Mark: Well, at least they’re getting in that parasympathetic state.

Jess: Maybe that’s why they feel so calm about getting in contact with people.

Mark: But yeah, we’re on it all day. We’re not just stressed with schedules. We’re looking at computers. We’re looking at phones. All of that is contributing to putting us in that fight or flight state as well.

Jess: We’re not giving our brains a rest. I know so often we’re on the computer all day doing emails, work things, and then the first thing we think of is, “Okay, it’s rest time now.”

Doom scrolling. And again, like you said, it’s up and down. So you’re not giving your brain any break at all. But what does that give us?

Mark: Dopamine hit.

Jess: Dopamine.

Mark: We want to get on that because it makes you feel better, because you’re getting the dopamine hit. Even though you’re dead, you’re just scrolling up and down. It’s giving a dopamine hit.

Jess: That is true. But as we know, we can get dopamine hits in many different ways.

Mark: So many different ways.

Jess: Running.

Mark: Run through. Exactly.

Jess: Community exercising. Just going around the block, even if you need to have a complete break and that means no communication with people — just five minutes, just go around the block.

Mark: Yeah. And going back to what I do, there are a lot of people who come in with chronic pain. Chronic pain leads to them not doing much. They’re not walking, they’re not running, they’re not doing any of this. They’re in pain, injured, and a big thing is breaking that cycle.

When they’re in that pain, they lose motivation. They don’t want to do things, then they withdraw socially. A lot of people I see in that chronic state get in more of a depressive state as well.

Jess: It’s such a downward spiral, isn’t it?

Mark: Exactly. Even if we can get them out walking around the block for five minutes, even if they used to do an hour run, that’s okay. We’re getting them out there moving. It’s an endorphin hit for them. It is a big spiral for people.

It was a few years ago now, but I actually had a patient who was in chronic pain. He had some cancer stuff and all this stuff going on. He actually asked me how he could end things.

Jess: Oh gosh. Far out.

Mark: Obviously I’d never had that happen to me during a session before. As health practitioners, they entrust so much in you. Obviously, I didn’t want him to do that. I reached out to the people as I should. Unfortunately, he did end up ending things. That’s what chronic pain can do to people.

That’s why Running for Resilience resonates with me so much. It’s people’s health, it’s people’s wellbeing, and trying to make the ACT suicide free is massive. I love it.

Jess: Oh, it’s so good, isn’t it? And it’s great too, having the connection with Running for Resilience and the Medicare mental health system as well now. We do have an avenue to be able to point people in the right direction.

David Smith opened up the Tuggeranong one, or helped open up the Tuggeranong one, just recently. It is so good to have something accessible for people. I think so often it has been, if you need professional services for stuff like that, you’ve got to go to Sydney. By the time Sydney’s there, it’s too late. You can’t get into places.

You really have to appreciate that the more we can expand in the ACT, the better.

Mark: We had a friend a few years ago who had mental health issues, and he was trying to get that looked after and addressed in Canberra, and he didn’t get the help that he needed. He’s no longer with us. I think that’s sad, that just because we don’t have the facilities for people to be able to go there and get looked after, we’re losing people as a result of that.

Jess: It’s too common a story now, isn’t it? At least the ACT, for mental health and suicide rates, has dropped dramatically as opposed to a lot of other states now. Obviously, we like to say that we’re a part of that, but I think Canberra having communities, and being a much more tight-knit community, tends to assist in that regard. Then obviously having all these systems coming into place is really making a difference, which is great.

Mark: Yeah. And people need to be aware of it as well. The Medicare plans — I think you can get up to 12 visits in terms of mental health from Medicare, and to see a psychologist and get a bit of a rebate to help you actually afford to be able to see a psychologist.

Being able to afford it is a big thing for people as well. They’re like, “I can’t afford it. I need to be able to feed my family.” But if they can get a rebate and get the help that they’re after, it’s huge for people.

Jess: Oh, it is. It’s huge. And again, movement is medicine as well. Just taking that first step to say, “I need help.”

Mark: Yeah. Or someone noticing it.

Jess: Yeah. Very important.

Mark: As you just said, movement is medicine. If people are struggling to move, how can they move? What can we get them to do? If it’s not running, can we get them walking?

There’s always something someone can do, regardless of whether they’re in pain. They need to get moving.

All pain is, is just an alarm system. Something’s going on in the body. When you’re in that fight or flight state, it’s at a heightened sense. Pain that’s usually, “Oh, it’s not too bad, I can deal with that,” is no longer, “I can deal with that.” It’s, “I can’t deal with this anymore.”

It’s a crisis for the body. A lot of what we do with chronic pain is just trying to dampen those signals down. How can we break that cycle to go, “Okay, thanks body, but I’m actually okay. I know there’s pain there, but I’m not causing any damage. I’m not causing any issues for the body. We just need to dampen things down and unwind things.”

Jess: Yeah, that’s true. So speaking of pain, because we’re on that subject now, men or women, who’s worse?

Mark: Men, 100%.

Jess: Yes, that’s why they don’t give birth.

Mark: That is true.

Jess: I always laugh because obviously Rich’s pain face is quite epic. That’s just between us.

With chiropractic, someone will come in to you and they’ll have a session with you, or with Caitlin or anyone else. Homework?

Mark: Homework. Yeah, we always give homework. Particularly the neural stuff that I was talking about earlier. If you don’t work on it, it’s not going to improve.

We can guide you in terms of what to do and how to do it, but if you don’t work on it, it’s not going to change. Same with the strength stuff. A lot of the strength stuff, in terms of me, I target the nervous system at the same time.

For example, I utilise isometrics quite a bit, which is where the muscle’s contracting but not moving. What that’s doing is stimulating the cerebellum. It’s giving you joint awareness and joint feedback. If you’re not doing those exercises, you’re not going to get that feedback.

So if I give you something, I’ll say, “Let’s not just make sure you do it. Let’s show you that it works.” I’ll do something and go, “Okay, let’s see if we made it better. Let’s see if that neuro test has changed.” That gives the buy-in and the motivation to go, “Oh, that made a difference. Let’s actually do it.”

Jess: And then there are people who fail.

Mark: And then there are people that don’t do it regardless.

Jess: I try, but I definitely don’t get an A on my report card, do I?

Mark: That’s the thing. We’re still always going to get change, but if people put in the effort, they’re going to get even more of a change and make them feel even better and perform better.

It’s up to the individual. If they want to get better, they’ll work on it.

Jess: I’ll do better. Well, I’ll try and do better anyway. Let’s be real.

All right, quickfire. What’s your favourite shoe?

Mark: Favourite shoe? In what regard?

Jess: Running. What are we here for?

Mark: I don’t have a specific one, but Hoka in terms of brands.

Jess: Cool. Why?

Mark: They just feel comfy. And the wider toe box at the front as well.

Jess: Oh, I love a wide toe box.

Mark: Yeah. Who wants a narrow toe box, jamming your toes in? Feet aren’t shaped like that. That’s why everyone gets calluses on the outside of the big toe.

Jess: Yeah, that’s true. And that’s why it keeps you in business as well. Thank you, Asics. I didn’t say that out loud.

If you could go to dinner with anyone in the world, dead or alive — if they’re dead, they’re not in the world anymore, but who would it be?

Mark: Usain Bolt.

Jess: Oh, that would be cool.

Mark: Just for his personality, but also to see what he did to become the fastest person in the world. The training he put in, everything growing up. That’d be cool to listen to.

Jess: That’d be really cool. It would be cool to hear about his mental strength. That would be really, really fascinating.

Mark: Yeah, that’s huge. How many times did he win gold at the Olympics, to be able to back that up again and again? World records.

Jess: Yeah, that would be really cool. So what’s next for you?

Mark: In terms of business and stuff?

Currently, I’m studying a Master of Strength and Conditioning through ECU. I’m nearly done with that. I should be done mid next year. That’s been a four-year slog, just because I’ve been doing it part-time.

Then obviously we’ve got the business down at Farrer. Currently we have two chiros, a remedial massage therapist and exercise physiologists. I’d love to get a physio on board in the clinic, and another massage therapist, and have a really nice team going forward.

Hopefully in the next few years we can expand our space and have a bigger gym space, do things like Pilates classes and have classes for the exercise physiologists. It would be nice just to have that bigger space in order to do that.

Jess: Do you think expansion, as in not out of Farrer? Would that be something you’d be interested in?

Mark: Yeah, potentially in the future. We’re loving the Farrer community at the moment, but yeah, potentially.

Jess: Especially because you’ve got the cafes there, which is great.

Mark: They bring a good vibe to the place as well.

Jess: Oh, they so do.

When are we going to see you at R4R? I know it’s a very long, long, long way for you.

Mark: It is a very long way.

Jess: But you did do 15Ks in one day at Trip 7 as well.

Mark: Yeah, I did 14Ks and about 24Ks the other day.

Jess: Yeah. It’s on Wednesdays.

Mark: I have to block out a time at work so I can get there for 6pm. Otherwise, I’m working until 6pm.

Jess: It is a party, so you do need to come along. It is well worth it.

Mark: I might have to walk it.

Jess: You can do whatever you need to. You could do 400-metre sprints.

Mark: No, no. I don’t want to vomit.

Jess: We don’t want you to do that either.

Well, thank you, Mark. Thank you so much for coming in and chatting. It has been enlightening.

Mark: Hopefully people get something out of it. Even if it’s just one person that it helps, that’s awesome. But hopefully a few more will get something out of it as well.

Jess: Very good. One more thing I just thought of. What is one thing that every person who’s running semi-longer distances should do? Is there one specific exercise you would recommend everybody should do?

Mark: That everybody should do? What are you running on?

Jess: The road.

Mark: Feet.

Jess: Feet. Oh, those things.

Mark: I go straight to road.

I’d be checking people’s foot function, particularly even simple toe isolation. Being able to separate your toes, lift up your big toe by itself, lift up the rest of the toes by themselves. Simple exercise, up and down, checking that out and seeing if you can do it.

As I was saying with the toe box, if they’re jamming in, a lot of people’s toe function actually gets lost, and that motor control, that connection gets lost as well.

And calf raises. Who doesn’t love a calf raise for runners? We did a test with you — endurance calf raises. If you can’t get 20 calf raises, how are you going to run 150Ks?

Jess: Mental is a big thing.

Mark: Yeah, it’s true. It’s all connected.

Jess: It is all connected.

Mark: That would probably be the two things.

Jess: Okay, cool. That’s cool. Obviously, if anyone wants to come and see Mark — Mark’s quite busy — come down to Peak Health or give Peak Health a call, or check out their website, and get on in.

Mark: We’ll be happy to help out.

Jess: Awesome. Thanks, Mark, so much. I’ll see you — I think it’s next week? I’ve got an appointment.

Mark: Couple of weeks before the marathon.

Jess: The things we do.