R4R Podcast Transcript: Jake Trbojevic with Ben Alexander & Mark Trbojevic

Episode: In this episode of the R4R Podcast, Manly, New South Wales and Australian Rugby League legend Jake Trbojevic sits down with Ben Alexander and Mark Trbojevic.

Ben Alexander:

Welcome back to the Running for Resilience Podcast. In studio, I’m joined by the man who’s fixed my hip pain, founder of Peak Health in Canberra, back for his second episode on the pod, Mark Trbojevic. Mark, welcome.

Mark Trbojevic:

Thanks for having me back.

Ben Alexander:

Good to have you back. And joining us online is his cousin, Manly, New South Wales and Kangaroos legend, Jake Trbojevic. Jake, welcome to the pod.

Jake Trbojevic:

How are you guys? Thanks for having us.

Ben Alexander:

Mate, thank you. Thanks for fitting us in. We’ve been texting for a few months, so I’m glad we finally aligned and the stars aligned so we could do this.

Jake Trbojevic:

I know. We finally got an hour where we could all get online, so it’s worked out well.

Ben Alexander:

Get online and get aligned. Very good.

We’ll start with Mark, because you’re the one that teed this up. Why did you want to interview your cousin? You’ve obviously got some stuff you want to ask Jake, but why did you want to get him on?

Mark Trbojevic:

Obviously, in terms of Running for Resilience, it’s about the mental health side of things. I know Jakey is a bit of an emotional character when it comes to footy and just life in general.

With footy, there are many ups and downs. You go to the highest level, playing for Australia and New South Wales, and then the next week you’re getting smashed by 40.

A lot of people that Running for Resilience works with are into sport and being active. It’s just about getting a bit of insight from that elite level, and showing that everyone goes through the same thing. It doesn’t matter if you’re playing for Australia or you’re just the average Joe. Everyone’s going through the same thing, and it’s nice to see people going through it together and supporting each other.

Ben Alexander:

Awesome.

Jake, I don’t know what Mark told you about Running for Resilience, but I’ll give you the 10-second version of what we are. We are a charity trying to eliminate suicide in the ACT, and how we’re going to do that is by sharing stories that reduce stigma about talking about mental health, but also putting on as many free community events as we can.

Running events are probably what we’re best known for, but we’ve got pickleball, Yoga for Resilience and all sorts of stuff.

This podcast started as an extension from our newsletter. We started a run six years ago at The Dock, at my pub, and all these people started coming. I was saying to Brainy, the founder, “Mate, who are all these people?” They were coming up saying hello, so we started a newsletter to try and get to know people.

Now we’ve started a podcast to get to know people better and share some stories.

Jake, for the non-league fans, can you go back to your early days? What was it like being young Jake? How did you get into rugby league? Were you a sporty kid? Was rugby league the only sport you played?

Jake Trbojevic:

Firstly, I just want to say that’s unreal, what you guys are doing. Mark told me all about it, so I definitely wanted to come on here. It’s obviously a great cause, so congratulations on that.

With starting footy, when I was six my mum and dad put me into Pittwater soccer, so I played soccer for a year. I was one of those kids who was at the back playing with his shadow, never really getting involved.

Anyway, the next year, when I was seven, they put me into rugby league. I was still a little bit shy for the first few sessions. It took me a while to get into it.

Ben Alexander:

Under sevens? They tackled in under sevens?

Jake Trbojevic:

Yeah, back in the day it was tackle. Now I think they’ve changed it so they get a bit older before it becomes tackle, but back then it was.

I got into rugby league and loved it ever since.

All my brothers started playing because I was playing. They started when they were five or four or whatever. We’ve just been a rugby league family ever since. It’s been ingrained in us.

Dad was president of the Mona Vale Raiders, where we played. Mum was on the canteen. We were down there every Friday and Saturday. We loved it.

It was more than just playing your game. It was a community. That was a special part of our life, and that’s where we developed our love for rugby league.

Ben Alexander:

So you had no chance. It was league.

Jake Trbojevic:

Yeah, no chance.

Ben Alexander:

No rugby?

Jake Trbojevic:

No rugby, mate.

Ben Alexander:

What’s the Newport rugby club? The Breakers?

Jake Trbojevic:

The Warringah Rats.

Ben Alexander:

The Warringah Rats.

Jake Trbojevic:

Dad played rugby league for the Narrabeen Sharks on the Northern Beaches, and he played AFL as well for the Manly Wolves. So he tried to get us into AFL.

Tom played a little bit of AFL. It probably suited him more — tall, athletic, that sort of thing. It didn’t really suit me, all that running, so I didn’t play much AFL.

It was league and AFL, and in the summer we played cricket, but league was always our favourite. We grew up loving it. As Mark will tell you, it was literally like a religion to us.

Ben Alexander:

What was it about league that you loved?

Jake Trbojevic:

Obviously the mates you make.

When I talk about Mona Vale Raiders, it was more than the game you played. Friday night, everyone trained. The whole club trained down there. Dad was always on the barbecue, so first there, last to leave.

Then Saturday morning, we’d go down and set the field up. As we got older, our game got later. We’d play the game whenever, then watch every other game and be down there the whole day at Newport Oval.

It was really special to us. We met so many great people. Obviously you play your game and want to do well, but then you watch every other grade. It was really special and we just loved it.

Ben Alexander:

Okay, so you’re indoctrinated at a young age.

Did you play league at school? What was your path into the NRL? Did you get signed straight out of school?

Jake Trbojevic:

I went to Pittwater High, so it wasn’t a sports school, just a local high school in Mona Vale.

We didn’t really play much school sport, but I was in the Manly development squads. Through there I progressed into the Harold Matthews, which was under 16s at the time, then the SG Ball and then under 20s.

I was really lucky. We grew up in Mona Vale, played our local juniors there, played our rep juniors for Manly, and then we all played first grade for Manly.

When I say “we all”, I mean me and my brothers. It’s been a really nice, seamless journey for us. We’ve never had to leave the Northern Beaches. It’s been really special, and we’re actually very lucky.

Mark Trbojevic:

From the get-go, your tackles were insane. I remember watching grand final after grand final. You would be smashing players and winning every year for the Mona Vale Raiders.

Tommy would come on and score five tries every year. From the start, you could see you guys had talent.

Jake Trbojevic:

We loved it.

I had the same coach from under sevens right through to under 17s at Mona Vale. He was unreal. He taught us so much from a young age. He was passionate about the game and gave us a great understanding of it.

As we got older and started playing Sundays, he coached some of my younger brothers as well, like Tom, Luke and Ben. We all learned tackle technique and fundamentals from him.

Tom had the natural talent. He was scoring tries every time he touched the ball from a young age.

It gave us a really good base and we just loved it.

Ben Alexander:

What surprised you early on in the NRL when you finally made it to the big leagues?

Jake Trbojevic:

The first time I played, I’d been in under 20s all year and debuted in round 26 of 2013. Manly were already comfortably in the top four, so Geoff Toovey rested a heap of players.

Me and Clint Gutherson debuted on the same day.

I played about 10 minutes and honestly I’d never been so tired. The pace of the game, the physicality, and the nervous energy — I couldn’t believe it.

I remember waking up that morning thinking, “Oh God, it’s here. There’s no hiding now.”

Ben Alexander:

You would have been pacing back and forth.

Jake Trbojevic:

I was very anxious. Very, very anxious.

I don’t think that really changed my whole career either.

But it was a very special day at Brookie in front of all our family and friends. Looking back, the thing that shocked me most was just the pace and physicality of the game.

After about five minutes I was thinking, “I’ve got to go off. This is too hard.”

Ben Alexander:

What are some of the highs of your career?

Jake Trbojevic:

What’s been really special for me is getting to play with my brothers.

Me and Tom started playing together really young. Tom’s first game was my fifth game, so we almost took it for granted.

Then Ben debuted later on, and when all three of us finally started a game together and Ben scored two tries, that’s when it really hit me how special it was.

Seeing Ben come through, fight his own battles and make his own way into first grade made me really proud.

Captaining the Blues in 2024 was another huge one. That was really special. Very surprising, very unexpected, but a true honour.

And then there was the 2019 Origin decider when Tedesco scored on the bell. I’ve honestly never been so happy.

Queensland had done that to us so many times over the years, and then finally we did it back to them.

The 2024 series win in Queensland was really special too. It hadn’t been done in a long time.

Mark Trbojevic:

Speaking about the highs, there have obviously been lows too.

I remember the Souths semi-final where you got sin-binned and then you guys lost.

How do you get through those moments and get up for the next game?

Jake Trbojevic:

I haven’t done it well, to be honest.

That’s something I’ve struggled with throughout my career.

The NRL season is a rollercoaster. As I’ve got older, I’ve got better at handling it, but I still struggle with the ups and downs.

The biggest thing I’ve worked on is perspective.

At the end of the day, it is just a game. All you can do is go out and do your best.

Sometimes I get jealous of teams like Penrith that just seem to win every week. It would make life easier.

But footy can be draining. It’s very rewarding and very special, but when things aren’t going well it can be really tough on you mentally.

Ben Alexander:

How does Manly and the NRL approach the mental side of the game?

Jake Trbojevic:

From a performance perspective, that’s mostly club-based.

We’ve got a mental skills coach at Manly, Andrew May, and he’s been really good.

The big thing is understanding that everyone is different. One framework doesn’t fit everyone.

We work on things like pre-performance routines, trigger words, breathing, mindset shifts and how to respond when things go wrong.

We talk about low performance mindset and optimal performance mindset.

When something goes wrong in a game, it’s about how quickly you can flick the switch and move onto the next job.

Some people use breathing. Some people stomp their feet. Some people look into the crowd.

For me, I dwell on things. I don’t really have a physical reset. I just have to tell myself, “I’m filthy that happened, but I still want to finish this game well.”

Ben Alexander:

Our trigger phrase was “next job”.

Jake Trbojevic:

Exactly.

What’s happened already isn’t going to help you moving forward.

Ben Alexander:

Something I’ve noticed with Manly is after tries, the team groups together and does breathing work.

Jake Trbojevic:

I think it’s really good.

It lowers your heart rate and resets everyone.

I’m someone who gets very emotional after tries — either excited or angry — and the breathing allows you to calm down, reset, listen to the captain and focus on what’s next.

Mark Trbojevic:

It gets everyone back on the same page.

Ben Alexander:

What’s the support like for life after footy?

Jake Trbojevic:

The support is really good.

We’ve got wellbeing officers, education officers, funded courses, university support and all sorts of things.

I’ve tried studying counselling and school teaching over the years because I realised I enjoy helping people.

I didn’t manage it particularly well alongside full-time footy, but the opportunity is definitely there.

It’s just hard balancing it all.

Nothing really prepares you for the end of a long professional career. That part is scary.

Ben Alexander:

I think one of the hardest parts for athletes is separating themselves as a person from themselves as a footballer.

Jake Trbojevic:

That’s a huge one.

We’ve done a program called Find Your Feet with Tommy Herschell, and it’s been unreal.

It helps you understand people more and separate yourself as a footballer from yourself as a person.

That’s something I’ve got a lot of value out of.

For me, perspective is realising that while rugby league is really important to me, I’m also a husband, a son and a brother.

That stuff matters more.

I remember one day after a really bad loss, I came home devastated.

I walked through the door and my two Staffies went absolutely ballistic because they were so happy to see me.

I remember thinking, “You know what? Life’s all good.”

At least my dogs love me. My wife loves me. My parents love me.

That’s what’s helped me.

Mark Trbojevic:

Who helps you get through those moments?

Jake Trbojevic:

Definitely my wife Alex.

I come home devastated and we’ll talk about it, then move on.

My parents have always been supportive too.

And it’s huge having brothers who play alongside me because we go through the same highs and lows together.

I’ve also found a lot of value in seeing professionals.

The NRL gives us that support, and it’s been really important for me.

Mark Trbojevic:

You touched on social media earlier.

How do you deal with the criticism and media attention?

Jake Trbojevic:

Honestly, I don’t go on social media anymore.

I decided years ago that I just wasn’t going to do it.

If you play well, people tell you you’re great. If you play badly, people spray you.

I know I’m doing my best. I know my worth.

For me, getting off social media was one of the best things I’ve done for my mental health.

Last week there was apparently a lot of stuff in the media about me, but I genuinely had no idea because I don’t look at any of it.

And honestly, if no one had messaged me about it, I still wouldn’t have known.

Ben Alexander:

That’s the thing. People say things online they’d never say to your face.

Jake Trbojevic:

Exactly.

A lot of the time they don’t understand what you’re working on or what your role is.

And if someone’s going online just to try and make you feel bad, I think that says more about them than it does about you.

Mark Trbojevic:

You’ve had a few concussions over the last few years.

How does the club support you mentally coming back from injuries like that?

Jake Trbojevic:

They definitely support you physically.

We looked at my tackle technique and realised my feet were getting into the wrong position, which put my head in the wrong position.

I worked really hard on neck strength as well because there’s science behind stronger neck muscles potentially helping reduce the impact.

Then there’s the headgear.

Mentally, there are always people around the club who can help.

And being in a team environment helps too because the boys really get around injured players.

But long rehabs are hard. If you’re out for six months with an ACL or something, it’s a grind.

Ben Alexander:

That connection with teammates is such a huge part of sport.

When I look back on my career, the biggest memories are the people.

Jake Trbojevic:

Absolutely.

That’s what makes it special.

Ben Alexander:

What would you tell a young player coming into the NRL?

Jake Trbojevic:

Enjoy it.

Sometimes the pressure and overthinking can take over.

But when you’re mentally feeling good and enjoying yourself, that’s when you play your best footy.

We’re lucky enough to get paid to do what we love.

Go out there, have fun and enjoy it.

Mark Trbojevic:

What’s the biggest difference between the Manly team when you debuted and the current team?

Jake Trbojevic:

Those older teams were just winners.

You could see how tight they were and how much they cared about each other.

I learned a lot about what the club was built on from those guys.

Ben Alexander:

What is Manly built on?

Jake Trbojevic:

Hard work and passion.

The Manly community is really tight. Everyone backs each other.

Those old teams played by a code. They were incredibly loyal to one another and really close both on and off the field.

That’s what made them such a great side.

Ben Alexander:

We’ve got some listener questions.

Glenn from Moruya asks: “If you and all your brothers entered a ring, who would be the last man standing?”

Jake Trbojevic:

If it’s wrestling or grappling, I’d be very hard to beat.

But if it’s boxing, Luke would probably flog us all because he’s actually a bit of a boxer.

Ben Alexander:

Matt from Bermagui asks: “What’s doing with the headgear?”

Jake Trbojevic:

After last year, I was willing to try everything.

The old headgear was mainly for protecting your ears.

This newer one has actual padding and there’s research behind it about reducing force and brain acceleration.

I’m not out there trying to win a fashion contest.

I’m trying to protect my head.

And if me wearing it encourages other players to give it a go too, then that’s a good thing.

Ben Alexander:

How do players feel about the NRL’s approach to concussion?

Jake Trbojevic:

I think the NRL is doing a really good job.

There are independent doctors watching every tackle.

If there’s any sign of concussion, the player comes straight off for assessment.

If there are obvious signs of concussion, you’re ruled out immediately and miss at least 11 days.

The game has changed a lot.

Years ago, guys would get concussed and just go straight back on.

I think now they’re taking it really seriously while still trying to keep the game flowing.

Mark Trbojevic:

The research around concussion has come a long way in the last 10 or 15 years.

Ben Alexander:

Jake, last question.

Who should we get on the R4R Podcast next?

Jake Trbojevic:

Someone like Gus Worland from Gotcha4Life would be awesome.

Or Tommy Herschell from Find Your Feet.

I reckon you’d love both of those conversations.

Ben Alexander:

Done.

Mark, anything else?

Mark Trbojevic:

Hopefully you get a win next week.

Jake Trbojevic:

Tell me about it.

You know what’s good for mental health? Winning every week.

Mark Trbojevic:

And post-win beers.

Jake Trbojevic:

Exactly.

Nothing better than beers in the sheds after a win.

Ben Alexander:

Jake Trbojevic, mate, you’re a legend.

Awesome to meet you.

If you’re ever in Canberra, hit us up.

Jake Trbojevic:

Thanks for having us, guys. Appreciate it.

Ben Alexander:

Go the Eagles.

Jake Trbojevic:

Go Manly.